The Discipleship Hoops Podcast
The Discipleship Hoops Podcast is where faith and basketball collide to inspire, equip, and challenge athletes, parents, and coaches to grow on and off the court. Each episode dives into elite training insights, mental toughness strategies, faith-based encouragement, and real-life lessons from the game. Whether you're a player striving for greatness, a parent supporting the journey, or a coach leading the next generation, this podcast is your guide to training with purpose, playing with faith, and building a legacy beyond basketball.
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The Discipleship Hoops Podcast
It’s Not Coach Speak — It’s Purposeful Passion
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Season 2, Episode 10 of the Discipleship Hoops Podcast features Coach Boomer Roberts, head men’s basketball coach at Belhaven University, in a powerful Season 2 finale conversation centered around leadership, culture, discipline, and purpose.
In this episode, Coach Roberts shares his perspective on what it truly takes to build a successful basketball program in today’s culture, not just through talent, but through accountability, structure, development, and leadership that extends far beyond the court.
This is more than “coach speak.”
It’s a real conversation about building men, building culture, and building programs the right way.
We discuss:
- Building culture at the college level
- What today’s athletes are missing
- Recruiting beyond talent and highlights
- Leadership, accountability, and discipline
- Developing men before developing players
- The importance of purpose and passion in coaching
- How basketball can shape character and life
Coach Roberts brings honesty, wisdom, and experience from years of coaching and program building, making this a valuable conversation for athletes, parents, coaches, and leaders alike.
Thank you to everyone who supported Season 2 of the Discipleship Hoops Podcast.
Subscribe, share, and help us continue building leaders through the game.
For sponsorship opportunities and partnerships, visit our website.
Discipleship Hoops Podcast
Alright, hello everyone. Welcome to the latest and greatest edition of the Discipleship Hoops podcast. I'm your host, Jimmy. Thank you all out there for this subscribed, that's downloaded, that's shared, just done all those things. I truly appreciate it. This is for you. This is our platform, not just mine. I'm just here to bring you the information and to help parents uh guide through this whole basketball craziness that's going on. Help players understand what it takes to get to the level that they say they want to get to. And then just allow coaches a space to breathe. Right? That's really the platform. So uh along the list of season two phenomenal people and phenomenal coaches to my right is Coach Boomer Roberts. Coach, I truly appreciate you joining me today. Um thank you for coming. Bell Helvin University, men's head basketball coach. Going into coming out of year one, going into year two. Coach, thank you. How are you today?
SPEAKER_02Welcome to Discipleship Hoops Podcast, where basketball meets purpose. This isn't just about mastering skills on the court, it's about developing the complete athlete. We're here to help young players grow stronger, smarter, and more skilled while deepening their character and strengthening their faith. At Discipleship Hoops, we believe basketball is more than a game. It's a platform for transformation, teaching discipline, teamwork, and resilience. Together, let's empower the next generation of leaders to excel both on and off the court.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, coach, appreciate you having me. I'm doing well. Uh apologize for my voice, but uh, we're gonna make the best of it. Yeah, yeah. That's dad life right there. So that's right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I mentioned Bellhaven University. So for those that, you know, first time weighing eyes on you, uh, introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm I'm Boomer Roberts. Um coach mentioned this was year one at Bell Haven. Uh I'm originally from the West Coast, uh, Arizona, then spent 10 years in California playing and coaching, uh, and then four years as a head coach at an NAI in Chicago, seven years as a Division II head coach, just south of Chicago and Indiana, and uh, and now here in Mississippi as a division three head coach, which shows you God's sense of humor. Um it's been quite a journey, but uh I'm really thankful and we've grown a lot through it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's uh it's a uh I was like you say, God has a sense of humor. Tell him what you won't do, and he'll show you what he will do. Yeah, I don't very few times, am I? Hey Lord, this is what we're doing. He goes, okay. You know, that that didn't happen. Right. So let's stay right there. As you look back uh at year one, you know, your journey to Mississippi at the bottom of the map, right? Uh so year after year one, what have you learned about you know Mississippi, about players, uh Bill Haven University, right? Or I mean even yourself, you know, come up from where you come from.
SPEAKER_04So much, right? And I I think that's when I was younger, uh, I got my first head coaching job at 28. We had just won the national championship at my alma mater. I was the top assistant, and you think, you know, like, oh, this coaching thing is easy, you know. Um and I think I walked into my first job with more answers than questions.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04And now I'm 40 and I have way more questions than answers, you know, and I'm okay with that. Right, yes. Um trying to teach our guys that it's okay to admit your weaknesses because then you can grow in them, right? If you don't admit you have them, then you can't grow. And and so really it's been just a learning process for the last several years for us. Um, Mississippi's different, the South is different. I've coached dudes from the South, but I'd never lived in the South. Uh I think I've been to 43 states, and Mississippi was not one of them until a year ago. Um, but it was clear that that Bell Haven was a place that aligned with what we uh value as a family. Right. Uh my wife and I and our three boys. And so uh Hebrews 11:8 is our marriage verse. It says Abraham obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. And so people are like, Well, how did you end up there? And it was a total Holy Spirit thing. Right. Um, not something that we kind of aim for and shoot, I don't think they were aiming for us, but uh it just kind of aligned um really well. And so we've been learning ever since, you know, uh learning the culture of Mississippi, learning uh, you know, basketball down here, different coaches, uh, private school, public school, junior college life. Um, so just immersing ourselves in the community and and really, I think we don't have a lot of gifts, but that's one of them is we can build relationships authentically because we're pretty authentic as a family. And uh I don't think anybody does the family thing better than us in terms of our college basketball program either. Yeah. Uh what you see is what you get. So uh a lot of learning from that standpoint. And Bellhaven, you know, it's it's just like any school, it's got its unbelievable uh qualities and then it's got its quirks where you're like, all right, I gotta figure this part out. But um we've really enjoyed it. It's been a whirlwind of uh almost 12 months now. So um I'm thankful for it, and God has grown us quite a bit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so what one thing I find interesting is um like what you alluded to is like you've you've really only been here a year or so. Yeah. And so in that year, right, you've maybe had to get here, right? Figure things out once you get here, right? Figure the landscape out. Where do I stay? Where do my kids go to school? That's you know, and well and compared the way I'm working it. Yep. What's this area, that area? So a lot of things you had to learn on the fly. So hopefully you gave your wife, uh, you've given her a lot of kudos and gifts for doing all that work.
SPEAKER_04I might be the head coach here. She is the head coach at home. So yeah, thankful that she's in the fight.
SPEAKER_03So then, like, then it was no like, all right, I'm let me breathe, just kind of take things in. No, you get the ground running, right? You came in, right? Middle recruiting season, beginning one coach going out, kids staying, kids going, who's coming in. Like, you got a lot of things on your plate, your assistants, right? All those types of things like that. So to be sitting here as an after year one, you know, a champion, right? You guys won a championship. Um, so we talk about growth going into year two. Like I saw some statistics that I read about uh in year one single season program record in blocks, right? Uh second most assists in the season, and then second most steals ever in pro in program history of Bellhaven in a season. And when I read that, and then it says, Oh, yeah, by the way, and third most three points attempt. Well, most times people would lead with the three points attempts, right? But what I see here and what I hear is that you guard it, right, you defend it, and you demanded kids play for each other. No doubt. Right? So going into year two, how do you build on that coming off of time? Like, how do you keep kids engaged and just keep building on those numbers right there?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think uh the older I get, the more you realize guys that have come before you uh were right in the way they say things. I was never a big Nick Saban guy. Um just because we have way different personalities, I'm way more joyful, he's way more angry. Yes. But um he's a brilliant coach, one of the best ever, if not the best ever. And he always talks about like last year has really nothing to do with this year. Like I'm I'm very thankful. Um one of the reasons I'm a little under the weather is because we just have been go, go, go. I moved moved here, I lived in the dorms a little bit. I was back and forth from uh south side of Chicago to hear while my family was finished, my boys were finishing up school, and then we were finding a place to live. And uh Coach Brooks, uh, who I inherited the job from, you know, he did a great job with it. Um, they were a 20-win team, they they proved what Bellhaven can be, and yet I inherited a group that 96% of its production was gone. We had no starters back, we had nobody who played a major role, and so it was one of those like a healthy situation, but it's gonna have to be brand new.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04And so we've just been go, go, go from recruiting. I took the job, my first day was May, or uh uh I took the job on May 10th, and I think May 25th was the first day that I started. And so hiring an assistant, getting a staff together, uh, I think we had 15 new guys, you know what I'm saying? Like there's it's just boom, boom, boom. And it you put it all in a blender and you got these ideas of what it can be, right? But you never really know, right? Right. Um and yeah, to to fast forward it to March and we're cutting down nets and going to the NCAA tournament and playing number three in the country to a buzzer beater, you know. Like I was really proud. And now becomes the hard part. Like, okay, it it shows that Bellhaven can be this team that can compete at the national level.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yep.
SPEAKER_04And yet next year's team will be a new team and a new identity and a new DNA and a new heartbeat. And so I think the challenge for us is uh, can you stay hungry and pursue something? I'm very thankful for what we did. Right. And I'm thankful for these guys and how they grew, and and people don't see the things that I'm most proud of. Right. They see this, and I am proud of that. But uh championships, you know, trophies gather dust. Yes. Um and it's the things that are unseen that really are eternal. And so um I'm to to put a bow on this, like I'm excited about our future because I think we have a chance to be pretty special. I think next year's group has a chance to be really good. But if we just rest on, hey, we were good last year, we're gonna be good again, right? Then we failed, right? Right, right, right. You're starting from scratch, you're building the foundation, and who are we gonna be? And so it's gonna be a huge challenge. Um, but I'm excited for it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh listen to you talk, it reminds me of a story of the Emirates Tower, and I don't want to guess where it's at, I want to guess Dubai, maybe California, but the Emirates Tower, it was uh like a multi-billion dollar condos. Yep. And uh um it said that a guy dropped the marble on the floor. He was like on the one of the top floors in the marble roll, and it was like, man, that's not supposed to be. And so what it found out like this millions and millions of tower uh had a crack in the foundation. And the foundation was starting to give a little because of the clay and dirt that it was built on. So listening to you talk, it's like like they see this, but they don't see like the foundation that you're standing on, right? And so in your program, I mean, I mean I'm biased, but you know, you have a Jonathan Lucas, right, that came through the program. Um, you have uh um Cam Beverly that came through the program, right? And now, you know, moving forward with uh Noah coming through the program. And so it's like you have to have guys that buy in and they're already foundationally stable, right? Level at some point, and then you can build from that. So like when it comes to foundation, like what still needs to be founded and what still needs to be built on top of that foundation.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's a great question. I think, excuse me, um we always say this a coach-led team has a chance to be good, a player-led team has a chance to be great. Right, right. And I think last year we started off slow. Uh, we had two really important pieces, our leading scorer, and then another six foot eight, super versatile defender, as versatile a defender as there is in the country. Right. Um, you walk in the gym and he's the guy you immediately look at. And neither of them played first semester. And so we got off to kind of a rocky start. Um, we were playing a bunch of poor scheduling on me. We played four road games in three different states in eight days. That was pretty dumb. But um we just it it took a little bit for guys to see the vision like coming to life.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04Um, and by the time we got them back, we were really bought in, and and all of a sudden the ball's rolling down the hill, and it was hard to be stopped. So that was fun. But my point is from this year, you know, Cam will be a senior, and and CJ Minton will be a senior, and and Christian McGahan will be a senior. Jalen Sanford's been in the program. And so it's just so many guys that like they know the expectation from the jump.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04And you talked about it. If the foundation is laid, well then you can build something spectacular on it. Right. If it ain't laid properly, properly, right? Right. If it's leaning, if it's cracked, it's really hard. So we spend a ton of time early on what does this program look like? And last year, everybody was new. My assistant was new to me. My players, even the ones I recruited were new to me. The ones I inherited were new to me. So nobody really had this idea of like, what does it look like that boom thinks to compete? Boom thinks is joyful, boom thinks is a really good teammate. What does that look like? I might have this image in my head over here, but that's not what matches what he wants. Now we have nine returners who know this is what it is here. You're either in or you're out, and we get to match guys and bring in puzzle pieces that fit them. So I think that's what I'm most excited about is it won't be a Coach Boone-led team.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04It will be a player-led team that go, hey, we don't do that here, right? Or hey, this is what we do here, keep bringing that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's good. And so I'm gonna stay right there and talk right about recruiting and how like recruiting at a D3 school, I would imagine it's difficult, right? Especially going into a year where you have nine seniors. So now it's like, okay, now, you know, saying, like, all right, now it's time to dig in, right? Focus on what we have, but also dig in. So, you know, when you have, when you're in between, you know, like a JSU, right, or a southern, or I mean, you know, even an Ole Miss is like most kids, football side, right? Not so much basketball. But in the football world, right, if a kid is that good and he's gonna go Mississippi State Ole Miss if you want to stay home, right? Sure. If he's that good but not really there, then it's a Southern or a William Carey or a Delta State, you know, somewhere like that, right? And then, you know, then the JSUs and all those filled up other gaps. So here, where it's like you don't really have, you're not able to give free rides and scholarships and all those things. Like, what's your mindset when you go into front of a parent and say, hey, I want your kid to come play for me because is it because we win championships, or is it because we're faith, we're a family, and we're gonna build foundation the right way. What do you think?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I think that's one of the things that I wish I could educate people more on is there's really good basketball at all levels, right? You go to a JUCO game and it's high-level basketball. You go to an NAI game and it's high-level basketball. Division three, division two, division one, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, we don't play on CBS at two o'clock on a Sunday, right? Right. But come to a game and people are like, this is division three.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Because I would say, I would argue that half of our team are scholarship level players. And I've coached in a bunch of different regions at a bunch of different levels. Division two, NAI, we've won a national championship, we've been a top 10 NAI team, uh, we've beaten division ones. Well, I've been at division uh division two. Yeah. And so like the level is not, the gap is not as high as you think, um, or not as wide as you think. Um, not you specifically, but like most people think, oh, division three is like basically intramurals.
SPEAKER_01Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_04Like that's not it, you know. Um and and and for us, it's getting them here and seeing the type of athlete we have. We have three players on our team that turn down full scholarships from division twos.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, why would they do that? To pay some money. Now, the other misnomer is everybody thinks division three is eighty thousand dollars. At some places it is. Right, right. Fortunately, I'm not at one of those, right? Because I don't know how I would do it there. Bellhaven does a really good job financial aid packages and getting that gap down to a manageable distance. In in some cases, I have guys that are paying less here than they were at my NAI or my division two. Right. Um but to answer your question, I I said it earlier. I I don't have a lot of gifts, but one thing the Lord has given me is the ability to build deep, trustworthy relationships quickly. Right, right. Um for whatever reason I'm able to walk into a room black, white, purple, orange, old, young, right, uh, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, it doesn't matter who you voted for, all that kind of stuff. God's given me the ability to connect with guys. And when you love people well, everything flows from that. Yeah, right. And like I love Jesus and I love because he loved. And so we want to model a family of love. And so what I think people are really attracted to here is like our guys love each other. Right. We got college dudes, full sleeves hats, dunking on each other, talking smack. Yeah, and yet they love each other, right? If you see them kicking it in a locker room or going to eat in the calf or wherever they're going off campus, like they hang and kick it and do life together. Yeah. And then they honestly, like, I'm it's player coach still, but they we have a relationship. They know that they're loved by us. Right. And their value does not come from their performance.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_04Right? Like they're if you go 0 for six with four turnovers or six for six with five assists and no turnovers, I prefer the latter. Right. But either way, we're gonna love you and care about you, who you are as a man, if you're growing into a faithful husband and loving father, if you're getting that degree that's gonna set you up for life, that stuff matters way more. And so for families that are looking at Bellhaven compared to a division two or a low major division one, I would say the gap is not far enough. If you don't feel like that's an authentic family, and you feel like this is, like, tell me what lasts. You know what I'm saying, Jamie? Like, tell me what lasts. Because money don't last, stuff don't last, trophies don't last. Like, what lasts is people that are standing up in your wedding, people that are there for you when your kids are going through it, people that are there for you when when you're dying or or talking at your funeral. And that is what we do well here is we build relationships that last. Yes, we win. Yes, Bellhaven is committed to excellence, softball's in the national tournament, baseball's in the national tournament. Both men's and women's soccer have won the league in the last two years. Football's had success, we've had success. Like, yeah, they're invested in winning.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's great weather, it's a really nice campus. We win a lot of games, right? You the master's degree for free is a huge draw. Right. Um, but then it's the relationship. We're over people over stuff here. And so that was a long-winded answer. But like, come to a game, right, check the ball, uh, give me a low major and just go shirts and skins. And I would bet maybe their bigs are, you know, 6'10, 6'11, and ours are 6'7, 6'8.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04But the guards are pretty close. Right, right, right. And, you know, they have a little bit more depth, but our guys fight and compete, and especially with our style of play. Like, I don't think the gap's very big. That's why some of them won't play us.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04And uh, I think the culture here, uh, when you get to that level, it's kind of about money and what can you do for me. Where you get to hear you're paying to come to school, so you are invested as well. Right. So it's clearly something you are about as well. So I think in some ways it's actually a huge advantage for us.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I mean, I agree. I, you know, I'm on Mill saps uh alone. We won't hold that against you. But uh coming out of high school, uh, my son, he was recruited three schools here, uh, Mississippi College and Southwest. And so um, you know, when we came here for his visit, like I I this is you know, a year before you arrived, and I was like, even as a Millsaps alum, just this place, like I love this place, and this is what I was pushing him to come here. Right. We'll and did, I mean, the the financial aid people, they did a phenomenal package, gave us together, and I was like, okay, let's go. You know, but the the he wanted to play right away. Sure. And that was the and the coach at the time was like, ah, I don't really don't play freshman. Yep. Right. And so that was the determining factor in not coming here. Um and then just going to the JUCO level, it took him, you know, well, he was injured red shirt his first year at Southwest. And then once he got on the court as a red-shirt freshman, it took him a year, I mean half the year, to just catch up to the speed of the game. The speed of the JUCO game is so fast, and you're so physical, and you have to be so like twitchy, right, and strong, you know, with a base. And so you're right, man. Like the the dunner guard of the level, first of all, basketball is basketball. Yeah, the court and the hoop are the same. Right? You still get and the object are the same, still put the ball in the basket, you know. Uh so yeah, so that's that's a very good point.
SPEAKER_04And um and I would just add that like we have four players that I've helped get overseas play for me that are currently playing. Yeah, I've coached 17 or 18 doing the count. Like, we have really good basketball players, right? And there's really good players, Juco. These are grown men. Right. You know, we have 24-year-olds on the roster. Like, that's different. You know what I'm saying? And so like, I just think, again, the misnomer of division three is all right, you're too slow or you just don't care quite a bit. Man, we got a bunch of dudes who care. That's really good basketball. Juco gets a bad rap, great basketball at the right places. NAI, people are like, what's NAI? NAI basketball. Top 10 in the country NAI basketball is high level. Division twos are better than division ones in a lot of cases. You know, you just go down the list. So I wish before people made a decision, I wish they had to go to a game at every level. Yes. And then really have an honest conversation, look themselves in the mirror, be like, Can I play on that floor? Yeah. Because it's different. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean we uh we we preach to our kids like just don't watch basketball on TV. Go sit in a gym and really examine like where do you see yourself fitting on that roster? Like on can you think you can get on that floor? Like that's the true test of whether or not you can play. Not sitting there on watching in the high death.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03Right. When everything's slow motion and instant replay. Yep. Right? You know, they show threes and dunks. They don't show the grind between three-pointer to three-pointer. Yep. Like that's where the basketball happens, right? That's where kids get either made or exposed. I agree. Three-pointer to three-pointer, right? And that that space right there. No doubt. Um, so talent talent versus culture, right? What what are your non-negotiables?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I think you have to have both. Yeah, right. Um, truthfully, we talked about growth earlier, and I've grown in this as a coach. Culture has always been, I played for um a couple different coaches. The my high school coach won 10 state championships. He's gonna be a Hall of Famer. Um, my college coach is in the NAI Hall of Fame. Um, and and then I finished for a guy who is the smartest basketball player or smartest basketball coach I've ever been around. Right. Um now there were some things that I struggle with and don't want to take from him and didn't want to take, but um, and then I worked my first boss, his name is Russ Davis, he's a top five women's basketball coach, probably ever. Um, has won national titles and coaches the best AAU team in the country. And then my first boss on the men's side um was Rhett Soladay, um, who's one of my best friends still to this day, big brother to me. He's the national coach of the year. So I worked for two national coaches of the years. I played for some Hall of Famers, so I got a leg up a little bit when I started coaching because it wasn't like, hey, I don't understand how to build culture and winning. Like I got a front row seat every day to what high-level culture and talent accumulation together looks like. Right. But then you got to be yourself. And so that's true. We we culture has always been um what we emphasize, what we tolerate, what we're okay with, um, what we talk about every day, what we are about every day. Right. I think that's where it starts, right? I heard someone say culture is, and I won't put him on blast, he makes a lot more money than me, he comes to a higher level. I just don't agree. He said culture is a made-up word, essentially, with some other colorful language that uh it has nothing to do with it. You know, are my players better than you and do we execute better? And I just think that's such a narrow way to think because at the end of the day, not once have you asked me what I've shot from three in college. Right, right. And I didn't ask you. Not that I don't care, right? It's just that like it doesn't really matter whether you shot 45 or 31, it doesn't impact the way I feel about you, the way I respect you. At some point, the ball stops bouncing. You meet a guy that went to Kennesaw State or Elon or Canisius, you know, and it's like, oh, I played Division I say, oh, that's dope. And then you just move on with your life, right? You know, like no one's like, wow, right, unless you're LeBron James, like nobody stops in Walmart and asks for autographs from Division I basketball players. Like it just doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_01Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_04Um and so if if the talent eventually fades, well, what lasts? Right again, we're after stuff that lasts. And what lasts is the relationship, what lasts is the impact. So I think you have to have a foundation of culture and who you are first, and then you have to have really good players. Right, right. I've been on both. I've been on really talented teams that didn't have a strong base, and we folded at some point, and then I've had some awesome cultures, and we were good enough, and we get to a five-point game, a clutch game, five with five to go, and they'd have better dudes than us come run one high ball screen, and we'd run intricate action. I'm like, yes, and we miss, and they win. It's like well, it's still about the Jimmies and the Joes at some point, not about the X and the O's. So uh I I I would frame that question in that way. You need both, especially at the college level. Um and we get to recruit so we have a built-in advantage, obviously. But I would say our non-negotiables in recruiting, we talk about love, joy, toughness. It's on my shirt. Do you love hoops? Do you love competing? If you don't love one of those two things, like uh it's gonna be really hard for me to rock with you. Again, a saving thing he said, high achievers, don't mesh with mediocre. Right. And vice versa. Right, right. Like if you're apathetic towards it, I'm playing because I'm good, I'm playing because my parents want me to, I'm playing because I probably should. Like, you gotta find another program. Yeah, you have to love hoops or love competing. You know what I'm saying? Some guys love competing more than they love basketball. I'm good with that, as long as you love to compete.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_04But one of those two, joyful is a big thing for us. I don't do moody.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Guys know uh we've we've booted some dudes from our team before the season. We booted them at Christmas. We just said, like, if you're gonna come in and you're wishy-washy every day, man, you're just probably not gonna mesh with me and our the rest of our group. Um, we need consistent dudes. That doesn't mean you can't have bad days. I'm talking consistently, and if you have a bad one, you bounce back. You know what I'm saying? Right. You're moving forward with a sense of purpose, right? That's where your joy comes from. Um, and then toughness. Uh, will you dive on the floor for loose balls? Are you coachable? Is your body language good? Right, right. One of our non-negotiables specifically is we never go on our knees. If you come to a Bellhaven game, you will never see a guy put his hands on his knees, right? Bending over. And people like, I still get texts, and you know, they've proven studies that it makes you it's easier to breathe that way. And I'm stuck. I'm like, it has nothing to do with the body, it has everything to do with the mind. Like, if I see an opponent putting his hands on his knees as we press and stuff, like our whole bench just starts screaming, knees, knees. Because like, what does that show? It shows you're tired. Right. We don't even use that word.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04We say winded, but we don't get tired because tired is a choice. Right, right. Joy is a choice. Love is a choice. Right. It ain't a feeling, it's a choice. So those are non-negotiables for us. We touch every line. Uh, there's a there's a junior college guy who's a good player who wanted to come here, he statted out, he's I'm not gonna throw shade anymore on that. Right. I saw him miss five lines in a sprint. You miss five lines, you can't go that much further. Your discipline, your toughness, ain't for me. Right. If you can't go this much further and touch the line, then you don't understand what it takes. And at some point, you're gonna take a shortcut in the game and we're gonna lose because of it. So those are non-negotiabs to me. No hands on knees, uh, touching every line. I'd rather you get 11th place in the sprint and touch every line than first and cheap. So um love, joy, toughness is the foundation of what we look for, and and those are some specific non-negotiables that we don't we don't mess with.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for this season's sponsor, Power Financial Group. The mission of Power Financial Group is to glorify God by helping their clients be good managers of the resources entrusted to them.
SPEAKER_03Whether it is investing for the future, planning for retirement, getting out of debt, or becoming a generous giver, their desire is to be your trusted partner on your financial journey. The team at Power Financial Group strives to serve their clients with integrity and excellence. Getting to know them, building a strong relationship with them, and helping them pursue their goals is the top priority. They take seriously their God-given responsibility to faithfully serve those families God entrusted to their care. As Power Financial Group, they can be reached at 601-790-1180 or send them an email at info at PowerFanancial Claims.com. Thank you again, Power Financial Group. Yeah. I, you know, before we move on, I will say that since, you know, um the few times that we've talked and uh I was able to share a few moments with you, uh that your passion for people has always stood out. And I've always admired and and like looked up to that, right? And like, man, he just like, I mean, yeah, hoops is there, but he just love dudes, right? He's just a lover of people, right? And and um in our program, one thing, but now yeah, one of the things that I continue to harp kids on is I will always care more about your character than your scoring average. Come on. Always about your character, right? And because what happens is that if you have a if you the way basketball works, if you have if you all have great character and you honor and take care of the game, your byproduct is a good scoring average. Because that's how just how the ball bounces.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I think I think that's life too, right? Like it doesn't guarantee success, but without it, it's really hard to have success. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I I think, and that's what I'm getting at with with the coach who talked about culture is nonsense. Right. Like, I think that's narrow-minded. I think you're only talking about the basketball. And like exactly if we're only teaching you how to read a ball screen or how to read a drop or uh drop coverage or help the helper, or how to pick up and transition using your voice, like what are we doing?
SPEAKER_01Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_04Because that has no eternal impact. I want to teach you those things. But if that's what I care about the most, then I would say I'm the one who's missing it. Exactly. Um, right. So yeah, I I appreciate that, and that's that's really valid in our program.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Uh so move a little bit on the court, right? And then so we're um, you know, maybe it's my algorithm, you know, maybe it's just I'm seeing it more, but it seems like in the past couple years, the purity of the game, right, of basketball is kind of leaving a little bit, right? And where you see more and more fights of parents fighting riffs or you know, kids yelling at riffs, and you know, just the the dichotomy of the product of basketball is really disappearing, right? And it's become either you pay to play or you get paid to play. Sure. Right. And so like in the culture, um, I want to help parents out, right? So as a when you go to a high school game and you see kid X, right? He's you know, uh 60. For some reason, a lot of these kids are 6'3, 6'4 shooters. That'd be nice. I would love to be 6'3, right? Just I went to I would probably well, I wouldn't still be playing, but I would have played a lot longer. Yeah, no doubt, right? But uh, you know, you see you see the prototype kid that that's like just want to score. Right. And then you go to AAU and you see the same kids with the same mentality. So when you go into your recruiting phase and you go to a high school game, you sit and taking notes on a kid, and it's like, okay, kid has the the intangibles to play for me, right? And you go to AAU and it's like, he has the intangibles, but what else does he do? Right. So let's talk about the AAU culture, right? And what are your thoughts on the AAU culture and and just like how do you recruit in that space? Or do you recruit in that space?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we do. And I think there's value to all of it, yeah, right? When you watch a kid, one of the things that has changed, I've been a head coach now for they just finished year 12.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um, and I've been a college coach for 18 years. And they used to have in June, they never you you never could play with your high school team after the season. And a few years ago, they made that difference. And now I think it's huge in recruiting. So through June, you get to play with your high school.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04And there's so much value in that because those are guys that you've played with a lot longer, um, where a lot of AAU teams are thrown together. Right. Um, and we'll get to that in a second. But there's value in watching with their high school team because high school teams are more about winning. Right. Right. Like ultimately you're trying to win a state championship or regional or sectional or whatever you have in your state. Right, right. Um, and so you get to see how does he impact winning with guys that may not be on his level, or maybe a football primarily, you know, football player primarily, or a baseball player primarily, or you know, cross-country guy primarily, but he's out in the fight with you. Right, right. Um, so you get to see guys in a leadership role that leads towards winning, and that's super value. On the AAU side, it also adds value because normally the talent level is higher. Now it's a little different. You know, again, I'm 40, and um back in the day, you had to get invited to an AAU, right? Either try out and make it, right? Um it was the best of the best. Right. Right. I I was fortunate, I'm from Arizona, and my senior year, there's only three or four like legit AAU teams. And ours was one of them, and we had two teams, and I was either the worst player on the best team, right, full of a bunch of Division I guys, right, or I was, you know, 1A or 1B on the second team. Now, the second team played in the back gyms where there wasn't as many college coaches, right? But I got to play a lot more. And the first team played in front of, you know, Coach K and all those guys. And back in the day, my senior year was 2004, and uh, we had the Atlanta Celtics were in the same uh group. That was Dwight Howard, Randolph Morris, and uh J.R. Smith was the starting front line. Javaris Krindu was a sophomore, yeah, and the best AAU team ever. Well, they didn't even go to college because you can go straight to the NBA then.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_04And my point is like it was such a collection of talent. We're now AAU, like you can get cut from your high school team and you can average 18 on an AAU team. We get those emails. It's like, well, I didn't play high school basketball, but I average 18. I'm like, what? How far has this come? Like, this is normally the best players from high school get the invite. But in general, when you go to Under Armour or Nike or Puma Circuit or whatever, when you go, these are the best players. So now you get to see that same kid against better competition. Right. The downside is it's not all about winning. Right. You know, um, and it's the same struggle in junior college. That's why a lot of junior college friends of mine, like, I don't envy some of the stuff they have to go through because you go to junior college, it's an airport.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04You go to leave. Right. So if you if you're open and that guy's kind of open, like I'm shooting it because I'm trying to stat out so I can go get a scholarship or my next place, things like that. Right. Same thing in AAU. If you're playing in front of college coaches, you're not necessarily making the right read. Right. Um, although you should, I would argue you should. That's more impressive to us. But guys think scoring is all we care about.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04And so I think there's value to all of it. How do they look around better players? How do they look around their team that they play with all the time? And you mentioned something I would be remiss if I didn't say this. We cross dudes off our list if your parent is a psycho. We literally just write psycho parent next to it. Right. Or text my assistant, we're not recruiting number five. His mom's crazy. Right. Or his dad is on the court, he looks at his dad every possession like, I'm out. I'm out. And I'm telling you, I have said no to really good players because I don't want to deal with that. Exactly. I'm not a babysitter. Your parent, your guys coming and playing college basketball. They're growing into a man here. Right, right. And they can't grow into a man if you're hovering over them. So um, there's so much value in going recruiting, and we're out all the time. You see me all the time, whether it's high school, junior college, uh portal guys, whatever, in state, out of state. We recruit a ton. It's the foundational block of what we do. So there's value in all of it.
SPEAKER_03So, okay, so recruiting, what's the biggest misconception parents have about college recruiting?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, kids have is that scoring is everything. Right. Right? We do like guys that can score.
SPEAKER_03Right, obviously.
SPEAKER_04But I can tell if a guy can score in four minutes. Right. Like, really. Yeah. Your footwork, your ability to put the ball in the cup, do you take great shots? Right. Anybody can take a 17 dribble, yeah, 43 combination, step back three and bank it in from the wing. That's not impressive at all. If you're banking something in from there, that means you missed it by like two feet. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? If that was a corner three, that's an air ball or a side of the backboard. So, like, we want you to score, but we want the right play.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04Making reads is the separator, right? Self-awareness is a separator. What do you do that impacts winning? So I think for a player perspective, like I want to know what you do that impacts winning. I've taken guys that didn't score once in an AAU game. Right. They switched and guarded all five, they blocked shots at the rim, they rebounded, they sprint the floor, and they sealed. Now the guards never gave them the ball.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Okay. That's fine. You impacted winning. Or I've taken point guards. We signed a point guard this year. He came and and and we saw him, you know what I'm saying? And and and all I saw was him passing. He didn't shoot ever. With his team. And I'm like, dude, why don't you shoot? He's like, man, I just I like getting guys spots. And I'm like, my kind of guy right there. He knew who he was.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04So he's gonna add value to our team. I think from parent misconception, is there's a lot of misconceptions, but uh the levels we talked about earlier, you know, like there are division threes that are much better than division twos. There are division twos that are much better than division ones. NAIS, JUCO's, there's good basketball and good coaches. Go where you can have a great relationship with the coach, like you really trust him, and go where you have a chance to play. Right. I think that's the biggest thing is like level looks good. And it's like I narrowed my list to my top 11 mid-majors, and it's like that's great. But if you go there and you collect shoes and you're a towel waiver and you're sitting, what has that done for you? You know, like basketball is a sport that is meant to be played. That's why you can go to any park in any YMCA at seven o'clock at night and there's 50 dudes waiting in a gym. They ain't at the ballpark, right? They ain't at a football field, they're hooping. Yes. Why? Because it's the most playable sport. Right. You you fall in love with basketball because you get a chance to play and touch the rock and be a part of winning. So do the same thing in college. Find a place where you can play, find a place where you trust coach and thrive in that. Now, if we're talking about this place is gonna play, pay you nothing, this is gonna pay you $800,000, right? That might be a little different because a lot of people I've never made $800,000 in my life. Like, I understand that to an extent. Right. But if it's pretty similar, do I rock with that coach? Can I play there? That's my decision. Yeah, yeah. And that's coming from a guy. I I had six offers out of high school. I took the lowest scholarship because I wanted to play for that coach with those teammates. I felt a draw to that place. And it changed my life. Vanguard changed my life. Yeah. It built me into the man I am. It I met my wife there, it launched my career, some of my best mentors. I mean, it totally changed my life. I'm so thankful that I went to a place that offered me the least amount of money because it was the right place for me.
SPEAKER_03Right, right. Yeah. No, um, speaking of that, like two conversations that my son and I have like often is like why would somebody want you on their team? Like, what do you do? What what do you add? What value do you bring to the team? And you know, it's his a year ago, his answer was, well, then I can score. Okay, but what happened when you you can't score? Sure. Then what? Then what can you do, right? And so like this year, one thing we really, really worked on was like the the things that don't show up on statues, right? Uh deflections, right? Uh communication, right? Those types of things like that, right? That don't show up. Like, let's build those things. And then again, right, the way basketball works is like it's not like I'm gonna be completely focused in one area, is if you focus in the multiple areas, right, you will ultimately become great in that one area that's you're the that you're good at, right? It's just how how it works. It's just how the balance of basketball works. If you communicate, if you get deflections, because if you get a deflection and leads to a steal and you run out, then you got two easy points, right? That's how that works, right? That's just how basketball works. Um and then, like in our program, and I always tell them the Patrick Beverly story, right? Well, Patrick Beverly averaged 35 points. Chicago guy. Yeah. And Chicago, Chicago boops, he averaged 35 points in high school, right? And I was like, what is Patrick Beverly known for in the NBA? Oh, he plays defense. I was like, right, he probably averaged seven points now. But he's been in the league 15, you know, years, right? Because why? Because he saw value in, I know I can score. But now I have to be the one set up people for scoring. I have to be the one to stop people from scoring. And then when I get the opportunity, I'll go get a bucket.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's the self-awareness piece going back to it. How do you add value? How do you impact winning? It's all the same uh conversation, right? Like everybody wants to be really good. And that goes back to what I said at the very beginning. It's okay to have weaknesses.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's okay to be like, yeah, I'm not great at this.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Like, can you hide your can you work on your weaknesses in offseason? And then can you hide them during games?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04You look at me and you're like, yeah, this dude's got a lot of weaknesses on the court. He's a six-foot-old white dude. Right. But the things I do well, I do really well. And so people understand, like, he's gonna stay away from me what he can't do, and he's gonna do what he can. Right. And those guys add so much value. And so I I think you're you're spot on. Like, yeah, find what you do really well. There's 25 dudes in the world that have the ball in their hands more than 5%. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And most of us that we're talking about are not those 25. Unless you're interviewing Luca next. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're not gonna be the guy with the ball. I think the Thunder, I think the Pacers, I think the Spurs and Pacers last year, you know, like those are all great examples of like dudes that are high-level players that have really understood this is how I impact winning, this is how I add value. Yeah. If the best in the world can do it, well, why can't high school and junior college guys and college guys do that well? Right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because you know what I want him to understand is like, you know, I came, went to Mills House to play soccer, right? And then when I started playing basketball, I couldn't dribble for nothing. Right. But because I played soccer, I have phenomenal feet. Yeah. So that's how I got on the court. Coach is like, oh, you got the other team's best player, and I just locked down. And so because of that, that gave me more time on the court. And because I have more time on the court, it gave me more opportunities to develop dribbling, to develop shooting. Yes. You know, and so that's how it works. So I was like, okay, son, if you go for four for three and you only have score, what do you think your coach is gonna do? Oh, he's probably gonna take me out. Yep. Exactly. But if you go for four, then go get three steals, three rebounds. You communicate. You stay in the game. You staying in the game is going to give you another opportunity.
SPEAKER_04Yep. John Tyson, who's a big time uh author and pastor and stuff, he says, know your calling and thrive in that.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_04And obviously he's not talking about sports, but I think that translates to the sporting world as well. Know who you are and thrive in it. Right. And if you don't know who you are, then ask the people that are closest to you that will tell you the truth. Right, right. And they'll tell you. You know, so I think you're spot on.
SPEAKER_03Yep. So I want to move off the court a little bit and talk about like um I I I've read somewhere where you said that um about building faithful husbands and um loving fathers, right? Yeah. So I mean, in this crazy world of hoops, right? Like we talked about it earlier before we once on camera, like it never stops. Like I think we had, after our season ended, we probably had a week and a half, two weeks just reset period, but it was reset to start talking about the next couple of years, right? And now we're into practice and now we wait, now we get ready for team camps, and then the season be here all over again. So uh uh on your level as a college coach, like how do you balance being a father? How do you balance being a husband? You know, and just like self-care.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I think it's a great question. And I think it's something that like it's we're always learning and evolving, right? I'm always learning and evolving. That's why there's books all over my office. And um number one for me is is my faith, right? Like I do love Jesus. Um that's a real thing for us. I'm not a basketball coach who is a Christian, right? I'm a Christian who is a basketball coach. And so um, but before I'm that, I'm a husband and I'm a dad. And where that started, uh August of 2003, I really felt the Lord put it on my heart that I want you to lead men. And I'm like, okay, great. Like, what does that look like? You know, I'm 22 years old, whatever, you know, and and uh excuse me, that was 2007. And August 2007, uh, going into my senior year of college, and I didn't understand. And the more I spent time with him, getting in his word and creating space and letting the Holy Spirit speak, like he really cultivated like this is the direction for your life. Coaching is the best outlet. I'm basically a teacher, right, but in a in a subject that they want to be in, you know, and so uh it became really clear how can you change the world, right? Well, we change the world by changing our families. Right. So many of our guys, and it's part of my story too, don't come from healthy homes, right? Right? They come from a single parent home or raised by their grandparents, or I've had guys that were raised by foster care systems. Um, I want to change my family tree. I want my kids to look at me and not say, Oh, that's dad, he's a great basketball coach or whatever. I want to say, man, dad honored mom and he pointed me to Jesus. Right. He was a faithful husband and he was a loving father, and he showed up, he loved, and he laughed. Right. We talk about that in our program. How do you be a great dad? You show up, you love, and you laugh. Right, right. And so for us, like, I'm trying to model that every day. Faithful husband, loving father. We talk about it every day. Uh fed herd model, we talk about, right? We want to feed them.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04We want to feed them spiritually, we want to feed them actually, because they're college dudes and they want to eat, right? Right. Um, we want to listen to them. So we take walks with them, we we we ask questions and we shut up. And then we want to model it.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04And so my wife is around our program. Right. My kids are around our program. They're in practice. Right. They come on bus rides, they're in hotels. For the first time, for some of our dudes, they've seen a healthy marriage. Now we don't have a perfect one, right?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04But we have a healthy one. Right. And I think that that's how you change the world. Yeah. Is if you can change your family tree and it was all going this way, and all of a sudden you can be the guy that is faithful to your wife and shows up for your kids no matter what, right. Man, that's impact. And then they'll learn from you, and all of a sudden your family tree is branched. Right. So people ask, what's success? I've won a national championship, I've won a coach of the year, I've taken multiple teams to the tournament. I've also been fired. You know, like people say your career doesn't start until you've done those things by 40. I was like, all right, I've run the gauntlet. Here we go, Lord. Um, but my point is how how we really define success is stewarding what you've been given to the best of your ability, where you're called. That's why we're in Mississippi. But I love seeing, we just had another guy uh who's an all-American for me, first team all-American. He won a national championship, he played overseas. Uh, he married a beautiful, amazing woman. They're crushing it in terms of their job and their impact, and they just had baby number two.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And he did not come from a super healthy family. Right, right. We played a small part in showing him what that looks like on a day-to-day basis. Right, right. So a faithful husband and loving father is not a Twitter thing, it's not a slogan. It is like when I get to heaven and the Lord said, What did you do with what I gave you? Right, I want to point to a hundred dudes and be like, poured into those dudes. Yeah. Including and first my three sons and my wife, right? Because then they're gonna do it to their kids. And it doesn't always uh add up to perfection. There's brokenness everywhere with sinful people, but that's success to me. And that's I want to win championships. Obviously, I'm super freaking competitive. Right, right. But if that's it, then that's empty. So um feed hear model. Right, yeah. Faithful husbands, love and fathers.
SPEAKER_03You know, at the high school level, um, I think we as coaches, we try to steer and mentor, especially kids that raise their hand and say, hey, I want to play college basketball. So we we you know mentor, you know, skill development and um just working hard and um like the non-negotiables. Hey, you gotta tell your girlfriend you're not going, you're up to the gym to get shots up on a gun, right? What? Crazy. She's gonna be mad. Exactly. Right, exactly, right? I'm not staying up to two o'clock in the morning to play, you know, video games. I'm gonna get some rest so I can get up and go for a run. Right? It's those types of things that get them to that level. So it's that type of mentorship and character building and hard work. And then at your level, when it comes to mentorship, like you're mentoring for like life's sustainability. Yeah, right. It's like, dude, if you don't do this, you're gonna mess up your life.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Right. So, like, how important is that mentorship piece for you?
SPEAKER_04Oh, it's everything. Yeah. That's that's why this is my sweet spot. Yeah, like college dudes are my sweet, 18 to 25-year-old dudes. Um, I I've been fortunate enough to be in the mix at some really good high school jobs over the years, and I'm honored that my name would even come up. But I at the end of the day, I tell them, like, unless the Lord changes my calling, yeah. It's hard to talk to a 15-year-old about being a faithful husband, loving father, because to them, that's a whole nother lifetime away. Right. When you're 22 years old, 23 years old, like you're starting to think about that. And I people had such an impact on my life at this stage of my life, 18 to 25, right? That's why I am who I am, right? Is because people poured into me. Dudes poured into me and said, like, yo, you're acting like a fool here, figure it out. Or, hey, I'm really proud of you, keep going down that direction. And so I love this age group. That's why I coach colleges because this is when you get in trouble in in high school, your parents discipline you. You get in trouble in college, the law disciplines you. You know what I'm saying? And so as you leave here, there's gonna be no more. Some some of our guys play professionally, but for the vast majority, like when you graduate, it's it's real world and all this kind of stuff. Nobody's waking you up, nobody's packing your lunch, right? Nobody's folding your clothes, right? Nobody's checking on you on what you're doing at one o'clock in the morning on a Saturday. Like you have to have the habits. We talk about habits make the man. You have to develop such strong habits here and now, so that when you get released and point, you know, the Bible talks about they are arrows, right? Kids are arrows of blessings. Right. Well, these are my kids too. I got three biological and I got 20 every year. And I'm trying to point them towards a target, which is Jesus and their purpose. Right. And then we're gonna pull it back so far when they leave here, it goes and an arrow is launched. And now they're on the straight and narrow, and they're like, Yeah, I'm not doing that because I learned who I want to be as a man. Again, wind blows and you get shaky, and then that's part of life, and thank you, God, for his grace.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Um, but I just think that like this is the part where guys decide what kind of man am I gonna be, what kind of husband, what kind of dad, what kind of leader of men. Right. And so I get passionate about this, but like, yeah, this is this is why I'm on this earth.
SPEAKER_03Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, again, like I said earlier, that's that's that's what first, you know, like listening to you talk is like, yeah, that's a good dude right there, man. Like, I I gotta figure out how to be around him and get like just talk to you, right? So you came to this beautiful tiny office. Yes. Um, so as we get ready, like um put this thing, you know, to to a close. I have a three-part question for you, okay? I I like to leave this space for coaches to offer um insightful expertise, thoughts on uh to three different people, right? Players, parents, and coaches, okay? So to players, right? What is a what is a hard truth that player players need to hear that people won't tell them? All right, that's the first part. Second part, what are some things that parents are doing with good intentions but are actually hurting their kids? And then finally, how can us as high school coaches get kids in a position to be to be recruited to play at the next level?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, great questions. First one is about the players, remind me again. Yep, hard truths that players need to hear, but people won't tell them. I would say, can I give a two two-part answer here? Off the court, um what you just said, like we talk about habits make the man, and what you just said, are you willing to sacrifice certain things? I think everybody wants to. Uh they see the bright lights and playing in college and playing professionally, and they're like, I want that. It's real easy to say I'm trying to do that. Right. Growing up, it was playing the NBA. Now it's I just want to play overseas. I'm like, damn, we we never said that, Carnegie. I was like, what? Um but like art, are you are you really willing to do the stuff in the dark that shows up in the light? Right. Because everybody talks about it and you put it on your IG and all this kind of stuff. Every time you work out, you take the picture in the shoes, you know, and it's sweaty and all that. It's like, okay, you were in a gym. Like, my challenge to you is work in the dark.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Work in the dark and don't post everything. You can post something every once in a while. I understand that that's the world we live in a little bit, but like let your work that happens in the dark come to light when someone flips the switch on it. People go, Man, he's been working. His body changed, his game changed, his mentality changed. Exactly. Unfortunately, even the work, we got some dudes that have like worked really, really hard, and they're just not as good. So sometimes I would tell you, like, you can work as hard as you can, and you might not. Deontay Johnson was that for me in college.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Deontay was so much better than me. 6'6, seashells in his hair, Memphis cat, great dude. Yeah. Uh I'm probably gonna recruit his son. But like, he was just better than me. I put in so much time, and then he could do some things that I couldn't do. And I was like, right, if I didn't put in the time, I wouldn't even be in the same conversation as him.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04But even putting in the time, I wasn't as good as him. So you have a choice. Will you put in the work in the dark to give you a chance to do that? But that doesn't equate to I automatically should be playing more. Exactly. I hate the conversation. I'm gonna be your hardest worker. Number one, you haven't seen my team. Right. And number two, you might be. But if you go six for 25 from three in a workout, okay, how hard you work, you can't put the ball in the bucket. Right. That dude can go 23 for 25.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Now, if he's lazy, he ain't gonna play either. But there's definitely dudes out there that can do both.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Um, so that's the off-court stuff. Work in the dark to give yourself a chance. Yeah, but don't act like just because you worked, you deserve the opportunity. That ain't true. That's good. Like nobody deserves it, right? Like that again, God's grace. Like, thank you, Lord. You know, and I'm a worker. That was hard for me to realize. But when I got into coaching, I realized, man, Deontay was better than me no matter how hard I worked. I would have played his butt too. The second thing I would say is from a basketball standpoint, a hard truth that I struggle with when I was younger. I wanted to be the guy who gave so much confidence because I had some confidence taken away from me by my last coach. Right. Um, and I won't get into the details, but like I was really good in one area, right? And everybody knew it. And he, when I when I would go into the game, he would literally say, if you miss, you're coming out. And I'm sitting there going, like, as I'm checking into the scores table, my mind is screwed up, and I'm sitting there going, it's like, man, you know what kind of shooter you are. Like we watch you shoot. I'm like, yeah, but if I miss, I'm coming out. Right. So I don't really want to shoot, you know? And so I just decided that I was gonna be like such a confidence giver and never talk about shot selection. Yeah. If you work hard and you compete, you get to shoot whatever. And truthfully, early it worked. We had really good high IQ guys. We had the greatest turnaround in the country, Trinity from five wins to 30. We go to the Elite Eight. But I didn't realize the Carlisle twins were special. Right. And Tyrone Carey was special, and Henry French and Grant Corsi and Zach Kirschman, they were special. Like I coached four pros at a school of 300 kids. Like, that doesn't happen. Right. And then I got to my next spot and I gave the same freedom, and I realized these dudes don't have the same IQ, they're not the same level of character like early on. And I was like, all right, I better start talking about it. So the hard truth is not all shots are created equal. I played for a guy named Walt Simon. Uh you might remember the name. Uh Miles is his son. Yep. Played at U of A and then in the NBA and been an NBA assistant, all that kind of stuff. And Walt used to say, hey man, I won't, I'll leave the name out who he's talking to. But he said, hey, we'll call him Joe. Hey man, Joe, you open for a reason, dog. Pass the ball. Because guys go, I'm open. That means I can shoot. Yeah. When you're seven, shoot it. But like again, we leave dudes open. We Ben Simmons, some cats. Right, right. When you can't shoot, we ain't gonna guard you. And we pressure. So that's a huge thing for us. But like, shot selection, someone's got to tell the guy a 15 dribble, step back two from 17 feet with 14 on the clock. That's not a good shot. Right. And so I've gotten better over the years. I'm not not saying right away because I want dudes to play freely. Right. But we'll watch some film. Hey, can we get a better one? And they'll be like, yeah, coach, I can get a better one. Because if the best want to play professionally, the best want to win championships. Right. Well, you look at Shea and Brunson and Castle and all these guards that are still playing right now. Their footwork is exquisite. And if you pause on their, they don't shoot bad shots. Right. Exactly, yeah. Ever. Ever. They never shoot bad shots. And people are like, well, I gotta work on all this stuff. I'm like, yeah, go watch it. Just watch an NBA game. Yeah. And tell me how many bad shots the best players shoot. Right. It doesn't happen. And so I just think efficiency has become such a big emphasis that like work on the shots you're going to get in games that your coach is happy with and your teammates are happy with. Exactly. Don't work on the nonsense that like nobody shoots. Right. You know? So those are two hard truths that I think players need to know, especially going to the next level. If you if you're a guard and you shoot under 40%, you're not efficient. If you're a big and you shoot under 50%, you're not efficient. Find out how you become more efficient because efficiency leads to winning, it leads to more stats, more playing time, and a longer career. Right. That's good. Second question was Parents.
SPEAKER_03What are parents doing with good intentions, but it's actually hurting. Yeah, that's an easy one.
SPEAKER_04Coaching your kids during games. Yes. Right? Like if you don't trust your coach, well then maybe you should not be playing for the gentleman or the ma'am. But you gotta find a place where you trust what they're doing is for the best of the team. And I struggle with this as a dad. I had this conversation with my son the other day. He in a practice kept looking at me. I said, stop looking at me. He's like, You're a basketball coach, this is what you do. I was like, we can talk about it later if you want. But in the game, just play your tail off, compete like crazy, be a great teammate, try to make as many right decisions, right reads as you can, and then let the rest forward make, you know? Um and so I just think there's too many parents that are, you know, I I played, so I I know the game. Or, well, I didn't play because I had knee surgery, and then I had this other knee surgery, and I had these people call and I gave up five scholarships. I'm like, oh, where would you well, you know, uh Appalachian South of the state of the West Coast University of the East, and I'm like, oh yeah, I've never heard of that. You know, like it's your son or your daughter. Like, let them make mistakes. Right. Let them make the wrong read. Let them screw up. And yes, I'm not one of those you never have to talk about the game, guy. Maybe don't talk about on the ride home. Right. But like at some point, if your kid wants to talk about the game, talk about it and add your value and input.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_04But like during the game, let the only voice be from the coaching staff and from their teammates. You watch and be a fan. Even if you think you know what's best, give it a rest. Let your kids learn on their own. Right. Because again, the hovering, yeah, you know, like you don't grow in a they did a study where you know you put a an animal in a tiny little cage, and then you make the cage bigger, and all of a sudden the animal stays in that little area because it's been so um over the years, like this is where I live, and it won't expand its horizons. Right, yeah. I don't want to do that to my kids. Yeah, I want them to grow where they can grow. Right. And so I just think parents have good intentions, yeah. But shut up, yeah, sit down, maybe cheer. Yes, and cheer for another guy too. Yeah, if your son's name is Trey, don't always be going, yeah, Trey, good job, Trey. But Johnny passed to Chris, who passed to Jamal, and Jamal dunked it. Cheer for Jamal and Johnny and Chris. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_03Like, that's okay too. You know, it's funny. I I had a moment uh like that this year watching uh Coleman play, and uh it's like, you know, they're the game's going on, and my son got pulled, and uh his grandmother, you know, my mom and my wife was there.
SPEAKER_00It's like, why are you taking another guy?
SPEAKER_03She was yelling, what did he need, Dale? You know, uh the Dale is my childhood name that they call my mom. Dale, why you see that? What is going on? What? And so like it tried to rise up in me, but then I just like took a breath and I was like, you know what, mom? Like, I don't know what they worked on in practice that he miss. Right? Like I said, I can't, I can't comment because I don't know what the assignment was, I don't know what the play was. Like, I don't know, I I I hadn't been in practice, right? So I don't know what what he missed. And so after the game, oh, the day after, I called him and he was like, I was like, What happened with yesterday? You got taken out of the game. He was like, Oh nah, dad, he was right. I'm I missed it. I was like, wow, there you go.
SPEAKER_04So I'm that and the maturity of your son. Right. Yeah. And and and I I would say this too, being a coach for so long. Like, not every time you come out the game, you did something wrong.
SPEAKER_01Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_04Sometimes we just, there's a lineup we like better, or another guy that needs the opportunity, or maybe he was playing well and he got his rest and he's ready to come back in. Right. Or we need something that you don't add as well as he adds. Like, too many people come out the game and you think just because you play, man, again, go look at the NBA. Except for game sevens, yeah, people come out the game. Shea makes six shots in a row and he still comes out at the nine-minute mark of the second quarter.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04Why? Because coaches know you can't sustain a high level of competition on both ends of the floor without a little rest. We're human bodies still. Right, right, right. You know, so I just I think that's a really valuable point, and everybody's angry, and I don't like when my kids get taken down. But I've had some times where my sons have been the best player on the team and then they've been towards the bottom. And I always look at my wife and people around, I said, I understand this because like this is real life. Right. That kid gets more opportunities because he's better. Right, yeah. Right? That's just yeah, that's sports.
SPEAKER_03This is one thing that I always that uh not our parents, our parents are phenomenal, right? We have great parents. Yeah, that's what he said earlier too. Now he really but uh that that they would they would watch the game with facts and not feelings. Amen to that. Right? Just or right, if you if you want, come watch practice, right? Come watch your child in the locker room. I mean, I'm not saying that you know our locker room and our practices are open, but I'm saying like you have zero idea of what we see at practice with them every single day. Like our their character in the locker room every single day. Like all those things matter, not just when the clock starts counting down.
SPEAKER_04Yes, there's so much more that goes into those decisions. Right. We we say to our guys all the time, feelings lie to you. That's why it's tattooed on my arms. You have to choose. Right. I think that's why, and I know we just got to a serious point here. I'm taking it serious, but like that's why some marriages fail. Well, we fell out of love. Right. To me, I'm like, you know, again, I've only been married 16 years, but like, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_04You you chose this person, right? Like through thick and thin, you chose them. And so, like, man, if feelings fall out of love, then why are we getting on the guys when they're I don't feel like going to the gym today? Okay, then don't go. Right. I feel like eating pizza and playing video games all day. Well, these kids don't get it anymore. Wait a minute, what? Right, we just set the same example. Right. You felt like a certain thing. Man, I feel like saying things to people all the time. On the road, the reps, you know what I'm saying? Like I've got one two technical fouls in my entire coach head coaching career. Right. People are like, What? How do you do that? I'm like, dude, I want to say so many things. Right. But I want to set an example for my dudes that like you get to choose how you interact with people even when you don't agree with them. And I just think so many times the kids get the bad rap. Like kids are different nowadays, man. Kids are learning from adults.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_04If we're not teaching them well, if we're not modeling it well, then why are we complaining? Right, right. Yep. So choose.
SPEAKER_03Yep, yep. And and so, you know, with Noah, right? Noah Sensing, you know, he could, this is this is the thing that like what parents miss, right? It's like, all right, so we draw a play, last plate shot up for Noah, right? And say he missed it, right? Which he hardly really ever does, right? Uh he misses it. And then you hear it like, oh, that play should have been for Jamal or Tim or whoever, right? It should have been for them. He would have knocked it down. And my first initial thought is, all right, the reason why it was drawn up for Noah is because Noah is here before practice, Noah is here after practice, Noah is here on weekends. Like, I can't, we trust, we see what Noah is doing, the work he's putting in when the bleachers are empty. So when they're full, we trust them to take that shot. The work in the dark. Right. We trust them to take that shot every time. Right. That's why he gets it. Like, like, I ain't seen your kid doing nothing else but practice. And and kids, they have the misunderstanding. This is the thing about players that have the misunderstanding is that if you think that in the summer you play an AAU game on the weekend, you playing, you doing a high school workout and a high school practice during the week, that that's enough. Right? That's not even the beginning. Nope. That's not even the beginning. If all you if all you banking on is what you do for practice and AAU, you'd never make. Yeah. You get there, right? But you won't stay, you won't last because your work is sustainability. Yeah, it's not gonna do it. Because it takes so much more. You gotta get there early, you gotta get there late, you gotta get there when you're tired, you gotta shoot when you don't feel like it. When everybody else playing golf, you gotta go cut the gun on and get shots up.
SPEAKER_04Yep. I do love golf. I'm with you on that. No, and that's what like at the end of the day, especially once you get to the high school level and there are cuts, right? Like fifth, sixth grade, like maybe even you know, lower than that, second grade, third grade, like everybody plays. I understand that. Like it's development, all this kind of stuff. When you get to high school level and dudes get cut, yeah, you don't think those coaches are trying to win?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04I always when people rip the coaches, and I'm not talking about us, we don't have too many issues with parents because at the college level, like I'm dealing with your son, he's a grown-up. I'm not I'm not having this conversation with you. You can ask him. Right. But like I've never met a high school coach that was like, I don't really care if we win tonight.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04They don't get paid very much. They teach all day, right? Right? They get up early and let dudes in the gym, they stay late and keep dudes in the gym. Oh, by the way, most of them are are moms and dads, and you know what I'm saying? They're underpaid and overworked.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04They're scouting, they're doing all this stuff. You think that they're going into a huddle down two and going, you know what? Yeah, who wants to shoot it? You know, like they are trying to win the game. Right. Now it doesn't always work, right? But like every coach I've ever met that's worth his salt is making the best decision for the group. Right. Right. And like that's the hardest part in a team sport. It's like it's not always gonna be your son who takes the PK, right? Or who is in the lineup on game seven, you know, like, or or hits gets to shoot the game winner. Like that stuff is earned and deserved. And honestly, the coach is trying to win probably more than you are, right? Because you're gonna graduate and leave and he's still gonna be there. Right. Right? This is his legacy as much as it is the kids. And so I just think that there's so much value to what you just said that doesn't get seen, and it goes back to the trust thing.
SPEAKER_00Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_04I'm not encouraging people to transfer and all that kind of stuff. Well, he doesn't play me, I gotta transfer. He didn't play me. That's not what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04Do you trust him as a man?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04Do you trust that he cares about your son or daughter more than just their value? And if you do, then you gotta live with his decisions and substitution and who shoots the last shot.
SPEAKER_03Yep. Speaking of coaches, I guess, you know, the last question is just um, you know, what what what high school coaches should focus on and get their their players to the next level. It's um uh a hard truth that I tell parents is like once the season starts, it's no longer my job to help Johnny do a left-handed layup. Sure. I I'm not finna teach him how to do a left-hand layup, right? Because I don't I don't have the I don't have the time or the space, right? I have 18 dudes and that I have to get five of them ready. I gotta get five of them ready to play a game. Yes, right. And so I'm not like I I without taking, you know, at midnight, right, and bringing Johnny in here and being one, two, all right, there you go, left hand. Like it's like, no. What parents send to us, we put them in a position to be successful. Right? When the season starts, all right, your kid has had a trainer, your kid has, you know, you've been up here rebounding for your kid every night. Well, guess what? We're gonna put him in a in a position to where we he's gonna come off a pin down and be wide open for a shot, right? But if your kid can't can't defend, if your kid can't make layups at a high school level, then guess what? He's probably not gonna play.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah, that's a real thing. Yes, that's a real thing. I get so sick of youth coaches letting dudes shoot right-hand layups on the right side. I'm like, bro, he is in seventh grade.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04Make him shoot a left-hand layup. Well, he can't make it. That's the point. That's the right point and the point. Get him to where he can make it because someday he's gonna do that, and bam, he's gonna get pinned off the glass, and it was like, what happened? Well, coach didn't have the courage to teach him when he was younger. I agree with you on that.
SPEAKER_03Um, I agree. Yeah, so talk to coaches real quick. Uh, how can they help you?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, this is a loaded question. But I think there's a couple things. One, um, make sure you are educated on the level and the style of play. Yeah. Meaning go to a practice, go to a game. Right. I never call a high school coach. So we moved to Mississippi. I would never call a high school coach and be like, hey, your kid can't play for me.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04I've never seen him play. Right. I need to go in front of him and get eyes on him and see him or see film. Right. I need to go see who you are as a coach and how you play. Maybe you have a six-point a game guy, but you only average 33 as a team, and you move that ball, and he's a way better scorer than I think. But I need to see him. You know what I'm saying? I've there's too many coaches over the years that they have good intentions, but they're like, yeah, he's above your level. And I'm like, you've not seen our level, or he'll be the best shooter on your team. Right. And I'm like, well, I had a dude just go 94 for 100. Right. He can do that from college three right now. Right. Oh, yeah, okay, show me that. Because there's like 30 high schoolers in the country where you can do that. And you have one of them. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, make sure you're educated. I'm not saying you need to send every kid to Bellhaven or Coach Boom or whatever, but like, come to a game, come to a practice. Same thing. Oh, my kid's not going to junior college. Well, did you go to a game?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04He's he's better than that level.
SPEAKER_00Go watch. Right.
SPEAKER_04Or my kid's a Division I player. Because I think so many times we've we've got this misnomer. How many, you know, club teams, D1 Mississippi, D1 Indiana, right? Twitter handles, D1 Lel, you know, all this kind of stuff. And it's like, right, we've we've portrayed this thing where like the only level worth talking about is Division I. I told you, we finished sixth in our league one year in a division two, and we beat a Division I without our leading score.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04And we finished sixth in the league.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04There were five teams in our own conference that were better than us, and we beat a Division I. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like the reality is, like, yes, Duke and Michigan and Florida, they're at a different level. Right. I get that. But the majority of like low major division one through division two, through NAI, through Division III, are way closer than people think. Just like a two A school can beat a four A school. Right. Or a private school can beat a public school. Like miss me with they have 4,000 kids and we have 500. That doesn't matter in a basketball game. You don't start with five more points because your enrollment's bigger. You know, like so I would say help your kids, if they want to play in college, find the right place again where they trust coach. It's a it's a really good culture, and they can play. I would rather my son go to a random school that no one's ever heard of and play and play for a man who we know values what we value. And you can still coach him hard. I'm not saying that, right? But like someone that we know, he's getting taken care of as a human, right? Then go somewhere and sick because I was too stubborn to say, ah, he's better than that level. Right, right.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_04Make sure you educate yourself on knowing that. That's the first thing. And then the second thing is telling the truth. Yeah. Right? Like, if if your guy isn't a great shooter, just say, hey, he's not, he can't shoot it. But he can guard and he can rebound and all that kind of stuff. You know, this is for me in recruiting specifically. What I would like to say is because everybody's like, oh, he shot 29 from three, but he's a way better shooter than that. Well, he shot 29 from three three years in a row. Right. And it's his form kind of looked like this with his elbow out. Like that gets better in the game.
SPEAKER_05You know?
SPEAKER_04Um just say, hey, yeah, this is what he brings, this is what he doesn't bring. Because again, I I tell guys all the time, I'm not the dude that wakes up at two in the morning with a new baseline OBO idea. Right. I'm just not. I don't eat, sleep, breathe basketball. Now I love it. Right. But I find I find as much joy playing pickleball with my son against two dudes at the park than I do checking a basketball.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04At this stage in my life, I love hoops too. But like, I just love to compete. Right? If you want a guy who's only basketball all the time, I showed up a little bit late this morning.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Well, my wife wasn't feeling well, and I got three boys at home.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04I had to take care of them. And I knew that you wouldn't go, oh, he's not punctual. What's wrong with Coach Boom? What's wrong is I'm trying to be a faithful husband, loving father before I'm a basketball coach. Right, right. So I'm saying, like, really understand it's okay to have weaknesses, it's okay to not be perfect, it's okay to not all that kind of stuff. Make sure you tell your kids the truth. Hey, you're not great in this area. You can improve it, but let's make sure you understand this and and really shine in what you're great at.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, I think that's oh so much value because when they get to college, like they're gonna realize, oh, I'm a shooter. Right. We do a drill called 45 and 4. Uh-huh. How many threes can you make in four minutes? You get four spots with a minute each. One ball, one rebounder. And people are like, I'm a high-level shooter. If you're not getting 45 to 50, you're not. Right. You're not. You're not. Well, coach, I'm I'm pretty good shooter. I'm 33, 34. Okay. You're not a high-level shooter.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Right.
SPEAKER_04You're just not. Well, well, that depends on who's no, no, no. That's the marker. Right. You know what I'm saying? And so I just think telling telling kids the truth and and being really aware of like, man, where can they go and thrive? Yeah. As opposed to what looks best for our program. Yeah. Yeah. I'll land the plane by saying we are not perfect here. We we uh have flaws. Uh I I told you this before, I'm pretty open with it. Uh I've I've been honored in some really cool awards, and I've also been told I'm not good enough. Right. And I think that's part of my story is to connect with coaches that have also been told that because it's hurt. Right. It's a struggle moving your family across the country and all this kind of stuff. Like there's some deeper stuff there that like is real. Right. But I'm okay with it because what I struggle with is what God's working with me on. Right. And that's helping me become a better man and share with other people and make an impact on them.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Your kid isn't perfect at everything. Right. He struggles in some areas. Right. Tell him, tell the coaches, and go where you can thrive and make an impact. And so that was a long-winded answer, but I think high school coaches are probably in general the best coaches in the country because they don't get to pick their team. Right. They're new every year. They got to deal with administrations, they got to deal with parents, they don't always get to pick their schedule. You can have a gro you can do a great job and go 12 and 14 and do a great job. And from the outside in, everybody's like, well, you failed. Right. You didn't make the playoffs, or you were under 500. You're like, no, we should have gone four and twenty two. You know what I'm saying? Right. But instead, I was able as a coach, not me, but whoever that person is, right, to mold this team and grow them into something better than the sum of their parts. That's why high school coaches, they're unbelievable. And that's why I love to learn from them and grow with them. And it's it's a lot of fun for me. But I think those are the things that I would say.
SPEAKER_03Thank you to season two sponsor, Dogwood Pediatric Dentistry. At Dogwood Pediatric Dentistry, they go far and beyond providing top-tier dental care in Fullwood. They create a warm, fun, and compassionate environment where your child feels safe and valued. Their mission is to partner with parents in nurturing healthy smiles throughout your child's formative years. They are committed to offering state-of-the-art care while ensuring every visit is enjoyable and stress-free. Dogwood Pediatric Dentistry. You can reach them at 601-992-0007 or send them an email, Dogwood Pediatric Dentistry at gmail.com. Thank you. Dogwood Pediatric Dentistry. Yeah, I mean that's that's a great answer. And I know, coach, I I um I know what type of um man you are, um, and I've seen what type of father you are. Uh I've I hear what type of husband you are. So um, you know, it's it's it's basketball is a community thing, you know, and you have to like people you know, love, and trust, right, in this community, right, of coaches. And so when it's you know it's all said and done, and you're sitting around with your grandkids telling old basketball war stories about Trinity. Uh what do you want your impact on the sport to be?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's a great question. I think at the end of the day, uh I want our guys to know that Coach was in the fight with me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04He believed in me, he loved me, he modeled it for me, and I'm a better man because he showed me how to have habits that would lead to being a faithful husband and loving father. Right. He pointed me towards Jesus.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_04I want to win a lot of games. I love for everybody I I coach to win a championship and get to experience that feeling because it's a pretty amazing feeling. But we talked about feelings lie to you, eventually they fade. And so I think the biggest thing is did this dude help me become a better man? Uh I love the phrase where it said uh success is really being respected most by the people you spend the most time with. Right. Right? The ones who love you the most and are in the fight with you, they respect you the most. Everybody's gonna have doubters, critics. But for my players, for my sons, for my wife, I want them to know, man, Boom was in the fight with me, and he's still in the fight with me. Right. And when I pass, I'm gonna go, I'm a better man because of his impact on my life. That's to me, that's his uh that's success right there.
SPEAKER_03Yep. Yeah, that's good. Basketball is the one sport that um it it it builds one team sport or trust is a big part. Yeah, because football, you taught, keep everything in front of you, right? Soccer, everything is in front of you, right? Uh hockey, nothing gets behind you, right? But in foot basketball is the only sport where stuff goes on behind you, and you have to trust the people behind you, right, to have your back. And like that, and you know, I again I don't know how it is in other sports, but I know like in our season, we have kids in our position and in front of us more than their parents do. And so building that I got your back behind you, trust. Yeah, it for me is like it's my is saying that like I don't care what you're going through, I don't care what you're facing, like, I don't care, you can always pull me to the side and be like, hey coach, you know, um I'm having issues with this and I don't feel like I can talk to my parents, right? Or hey coach, like I'm failing. Like, can can you help me get my grades up? You know, I mean like I don't care what it is, but you're never alone, right? You're you're now I'm not saying like you come to me and tell me like somebody I'm not gonna go bring your parents involved. Sure, right. Certain things I have to. Yes. I'm not saying that. But what I am saying is that you can always I got your back. Yeah. Right? I'm all you I'm always being your ear and you're behind you, telling you move left, move right, screen coming. Yep. And um I I and I think like, again, back to the purity of the game. Like, I think that's where basketball is kind of with the influx of AU, I think that's the corner that we're we're we're missing now. Right? That's the piece of basketball that we're missing now. Now it's this. Right? Every time I give me a gold ball, that I can beat my chits, right? That proves that I'm a man because I got a trophy. And that that doesn't prove anything. Right. That doesn't prove anything. But um, um so like when I hear you talk and I hear your your your passion, right, and I see you like, you know, you stand up, you get excited about it, it's like like like that's that's the dude that that players in his program know love and trust. Right. And I mean, obviously you have, I mean, kids are kids, right? So I bet like on that five-win team in Trinity, you probably didn't have kids that thought you know love and trust them. Yeah, well, that was before I got there. And I got there. Yeah, but you know what's yes, no, no, that's it, right? Yeah, no question. Yeah. But when they hear your heart, when they hear your, okay, yeah, okay, you know what? Coach I, coach boom my eye, right? Yeah, you have to earn it, right? You have to earn that.
SPEAKER_04Another way that we say that is being in the fight. Right, right. Right? Do they know you are in the fight? Right. The Patriot is one of my favorite movies ever. And for you young people, you don't know what the Patriot is, but go watch the Patriot, Mel Gibson, it's an unbelievable movie. On one side, you got General Cornwallis, he is on a horse barking orders to all his people, but he's not in the fight. And the other side, you got Mel Gibson, yeah, and he's running through with a flag and he's bloody, and he's got a sword and a hatchet, and he's just like, right. I want to be the leader that everybody looks and goes, man, boom is bloody. Yeah, boom is sweaty, boom is in the fight for life with me, not just on a basketball court. Right. That is trustworthy. I don't want to be the dude on the horse going, hey, do this, do this, do this, while I'm up here chilling. You know, like I don't want to be that kind of dad, I don't want to be that kind of husband, I don't want to be that kind of leader of men, I don't want to be that kind of coach. And so I've been fortunate to be modeled by some really, really good coaches that poured into me. Um, and and obviously Jesus reading the word, like that's that's it. That's dying on a cross, bleeding, sweating, right, going through it. Not so that he could be better, right, but so we could spend eternity with him. And so um, I want to coach like that.
SPEAKER_03Yep, that's good. So I have one more question for you. Um, but what when I when I hear you say that, I think about the uh the poem or the quote by Theodore Roosevelt about the man in the arena. Man in the arena, it's not a critic who counts. Come on, baby. Right, like and the victor doesn't go to the one who's victorious, right?
SPEAKER_04It goes to the one who showed up and was there. Who airs time and time again, who knows the shortcomings. You got me fired up. I got good smoke. I know that poem, baby.
SPEAKER_01Yep, yeah, yep.
SPEAKER_03That's it. Um all right, so you're you're 40, so uh I I probably know the answer to this question, but I'll ask you anyway. All right, who you have? Jordan O'Lebron. One game to win, and I'm coaching him. Who's the best?
SPEAKER_04Who's the goat? The goat is Mike. Okay. The most gifted is Braun. Yes. And I think I told my kids this last night at the dinner table. If he can stay healthy, we might be having a different conversation in 10 years because I ain't never seen anything like Wemby. He's unbelievable. He's you got grown 6'8 guards going to the paint and going, no, I'm going back and literally dribbling back. That's insane to me. So yeah, I think I think LeBron gets knocked too much. I think LeBron is way more like Magic than he was like Mike. I think Kobe was like Mike, where LeBron makes the right read over and over.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04People knock him, say his numbers are better because he played longer. Yeah. Mike, go watch Mike at 34. Right. He wasn't like that. You watched Bron at 41 in the in the Olympics this year. Yeah. He was the best player in the world for three weeks in the Olympics, and that's unbelievable. So, like, give me both of them. Bronn to me doesn't have as much killer as Mike had. Mike has a little more, like, you know what I'm saying? So, like, I think ultimately everything is compared towards him, and he's gonna keep that title for a long time. Yeah, but I'll tell you what, if you had one and I had the other, it'd be a really good game. I'm I'm good with either one.
SPEAKER_03So it's it's uh it's funny to me how people like men in black missed 80 years eighty food ninety for Mike, and then 99 through 2004. Like it's like new years didn't even happen.
SPEAKER_04He had an unbelievable, unbelievable era when. Where like nobody could touch him. I also think the players now are more gifted. I don't know. I don't think they're tougher and all that. I agree with all that stuff. You know, we walked uphill in snowstorms both ways to school. I get all that. But like Mike was getting guarded by Danny Ainge and Dan Marley. And I know this because I'm a Suns fan. You know, the shot on Elo. You mean Craig Elo was guarding Michael Jordan? When was the last time a guy like Craig Elo was guarding Braun? Right. You know, like then don't you don't leave Duncan Robinson on Braun. Exactly, right? Like, so there weren't 6'11 Kevin Durant's walking around either.
SPEAKER_03It leads me to I always say that uh uh feelings. Um it's gonna come to me in a second, but I was gonna say, like, I mess with people with Jordan fans, and I'd be like, you know what? You're right. We're also the goat of the 70s, right? Magic and Bird, the goat of the 80s, and you're right. Michael Jordan was the goat of the 90s. Yeah, he was the best player in the 90s, you're right. He ruined a lot of people's careers' careers.
SPEAKER_04I I remember exactly where I was when John Paxson hit the shot in 1993 to beat the Suns, and I was crushed. And uh yeah, I I just I think appreciating all of them for greatness. And I I just think winning a championship doesn't make you a winner. Steve Nash is a winner.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, Gary Payton was a winner. Yeah, yeah. You know, Carl Malone was a winner, Charles Barkley was a winner, and they got high-level winners. You can't tell me Robert Ory is a better winner than Steve Nash because Robert has seven rings. Come on now. Right. Like that ain't that ain't it. That's why, like, again, I'm I'm really thankful I didn't make one of these shots. Right. I didn't get a stop this year, I didn't get a rebound. You know what I'm saying? So like it it comes down to a bunch of guys coming together at the right time to do it. And you don't have to be the best team all season, but if you're the best team one night consistently, right, um, to me, that's that's that's a winner.
SPEAKER_03And that right there is the misconception that players and coaches don't understand is that we have a defense we call fist, right? Because you can't play defense with one superstar. Come on. Pepper can't play defense by himself, don't care how many points he averages. Right. Also, he has to have somebody to pass him the ball. He has to have somebody to throw the ball from out of bounds to inbound. Yep. He has to have somebody to rebound and kick it out to him, right? Yep. Okay, so you can't do it uh by yourself. You have to have other people around you.
SPEAKER_04Have to. Have to. Yeah, I am with you on that, coach.
SPEAKER_03Coach, appreciate you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, thanks, brother. A lot of fun.
SPEAKER_02All right. And that wraps up another episode of the Discipleship Hoops podcast. If today's conversation added value to you, do me a favor. Like it, subscribe to the channel, and share this episode with a coach, a parent, or athlete who needs to hear it. We're building something bigger than basketball here. We're building leaders. If you or your business would like to sponsor an upcoming episode and partner with us in impacting the next generation, visit our website at www.jimmyllucus.com or send us a direct message. We love to connect. Until next time, keep raising the standard, keep leading with purpose, and remember the game is the platform, leadership is the mission. Believe, feel, for